Tag Archives: HBO

Queen Latifah Looks To Quash Sexuality Rumours

Ah a celebrity lesbian rumour. They always catch our attentions; and one woman always on our radar is Queen Latifah.

In a new interview for Variety, Latifah addressed her sexuality, or rather the lack of clarity about it on it.

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Since she starred earlier this year, as bisexual blues icon Bessie Smith in her HBO biopic, questions have surfaced once more about who she is bedding.

At the time, Latifah, as usual, refused to open up about her sexuality. Now, she’s explaining why neither fans nor bloggers nor tabloids will ever hear a word from her about whom she’s bedding.

I know what I’m doing in my private life, and I know what I’m not, and I know me. And people who are not privy to that don’t know; they don’t know what they think they know. This is Bessie’s story. It has nothing to do with my life. There’s a difference for me between being honest and sharing my business with people who don’t need to know my business. So why would I start doing anything differently now because of ‘Bessie’?”

Although Latifah refuses to open up about her sexuality, she explains that she understands why people talk about it so much.

Also read: Queen Latifah Says Homophobia is Still Widespread in the Entertainment Industry

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I think it’s human nature. People have curiosity about people’s sexuality, because we’re curious about sex. I think the problem is we don’t talk about it enough. We act like sex is bad sometimes. We act like love is bad sometimes, or makes you weak somehow.”

To be fair, it’s not just an issue of being interested in sex. Fans have also had their interest piqued because of a number of photos of Latifah in intimate settings with a few of her alleged girlfriends.

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However, Latifah explains that she tries not to focus on what the tabloids are saying about her.

At some point I told all my friends, ‘Don’t come to me with negative stuff in a magazine.’ Let them write whatever they want to write. I can’t control it,”

Although Latifah has gotten used to tabloid talk about her sex life, she says there’s one area of her life where she refuses to let the tabloids pry.

Don’t write about her family.

Then I’m ready to not only sue you, but put a knuckle sandwich in your mouth. That’s where my Jersey roots come out!”

Queen Latifah Says Homophobia is Still Widespread in the Entertainment Industry

Queen Latifah – the Grammy winning rapper, and Emmy nominated actress – says she thinks homophobia is still as prevalent in the entertainment industry as it was half a century ago.

Talking to the Metro, about her recent role as legendary bisexual blues singer Bessie Smith, Latifah said:

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I think she was probably more open then than people are now. It was a different era, but people weren’t as politically correct as they are now.”

However, the actress thinks that although people claim to be more open-minded, they are still as bigoted as they were fifty years – they have just learnt to “hide it” better.

They can be just as racist, sexist and classist [sic] now as then but they just won’t say it in the same way now. They’ll kind of hide it.”

Talking of why she took the part of Smith, she added

I’ve kind of been through some of the things that Bessie has been through. I’ve lived a little bit of her and I can speak from a more authentic place.”

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She also said that she wishes more fellow rappers would “say more” about serious subjects and “go against the grain to keep things interesting.”

It takes a little courage – people have to be brave enough to use their voices, not to be the status quo.”

She previously said of the film:

People’s ideas in general are antiquated when it comes to who you love. We haven’t moved as quickly as we probably should. The reality is that there’s always been gay people in the black community, so it’s not foreign to us. And not just as a black community but just a society as a whole.

Who you choose to marry is really up to you and it’s not something you should be judged on. I don’t find being gay or lesbian to be a character flaw. Couples should be protected under the laws of this country period.

It actually angers me. It’s not unusual so let’s be adults and let’s move forward.”

‘Bessie’ Director Dee Rees Discusses How the Fearless Bisexual Singer Inspired Change (Video)

Fearless filmmaker Dee Rees discusses how Bessie Smith challenged her to challenge audiences and inspire change. Watch her critically acclaimed film Bessie on HBO NOW.

Queen Latifah gives the most impressive performance of her film career in the movie Bessie. Last month she talked to to BET’s Clay Kane,  and opened up about the lesbian love scenes in the film, and says people shouldn’t be caught off guard by what they see.

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People feel a type of way when they see any sexuality on-screen. I think its almost human nature. People are so fascinated by it. It shouldn’t even be a discussion. But it is, because people are still curious, and people still wonder how they feel about things. At the end of the day I don’t really care if someone feels uncomfortable about it. It is what it is, and it’s life. So you either deal with it or not. It’s just part of who she is, and I had to tell the story honestly.”

HBO’s VICE Links Uganda’s Lesbian Corrective Rapes Back to American Anti-Gay Christians

The plight of the LGBT community in Uganda has largely dropped out of the headlines, but in the latest episode of VICE on HBO, correspondent Isobel Yeung travels to Uganda and shows that they’re as persecuted as ever.

Not only does the documentary highlight how churches and schools are lying to children and adults about the “evils” of homosexuality, but that American missionaries and politicians are part of the problem too.

A Prayer for Uganda highlights the teachings of people like Pastor George Oduch, a Christian Fundamentalist who has taken his lead from anti-gay American Pastor Scott Lively.

They attempt to educate Ugandans about how there’s “no difference between a terrorist and a homosexual,” and that homosexuality is just like paedophilia.

The propaganda is so distorted that children are taught that there are ‘10 different cancers that attack only homosexuals’.

Girls are also told that sleeping with another women will lead to lesbian infertility.

If a woman gets homosexuality with another woman, she cannot give birth.”

The young Ugandans repeat what they are lectured in school and in church, but also in their communities, as the adults are even worse.

In one scene, Yeung interviews poor, working class men. The men tell her that the first thing she needs to know about their culture is “we hate is homosexuality.” That is the first thing of which they are proud. Not arts, science, their families, their heritage – not even their perverted interpretation of Christianity.

“We hate that one [homosexuality] completely. If we find a woman with a woman, we will pull out one and we will do it to her.” He’s of course talking about rape. “We cannot allow a woman to have sex with a fellow woman.”

Yeung asks, “Have you ever raped a lesbian?”

“Yeah,” the man replies. “Serious raping.”

Then Yeung asks, “So what would you do if you saw a gay man?”

“Kill! Kill! You kill that one! Kill! I just kill them. Woman and woman we rape, but man and man we kill.”

She wrote later, “I don’t ever recall feeling as heartbroken as the week we spent shooting this.”

Yeung is able to speak with a Ugandan gay woman on camera, although her face is blurred and voice distorted as to not reveal her identity. The woman had a secret girlfriend, but was found out by a group of men who raped her. When she found out she was pregnant soon after, her girlfriend left her. Now she says her child is “a blessing in disguise,” because now people won’t assume she’s a lesbian so quickly. In a heart breaking moment, she shares that she won’t even tell her son she’s gay because she’s worried he will reject her.

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Last year, the government of Uganda passed a bill making homosexuality–already a crime–punishable by life imprisonment or even the death penalty. The legislation was overturned, thanks largely to the international fury it provoked, but homosexuality remains illegal and massively stigmatised.

Now, less than a year after the “Anti-Homosexuality Act” (nicknamed the “Kill the Gays” bill in Western media) was struck down, Ugandan officials are working to revive it.

Queen Latifah Defends Lesbian Love Scenes in ‘Bessie’

Queen Latifah gives the most impressive performance of her film career in the upcoming HBO original movie Bessie.

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Talking to BET’s Clay Kane, Latifah opened up about the lesbian love scenes in the film, and says people shouldn’t be caught off guard by what they see.

People feel a type of way when they see any sexuality on-screen. I think its almost human nature. People are so fascinated by it. It shouldn’t even be a discussion. But it is, because people are still curious, and people still wonder how they feel about things. At the end of the day I don’t really care if someone feels uncomfortable about it. It is what it is, and it’s life. So you either deal with it or not. It’s just part of who she is, and I had to tell the story honestly.”

There are several scenes in the film where Latifah’s character makes out with other women, and at one point viewers see Latifah completely nude.

I had to go to a lot of different layers, I had to let it all hang out. People will see me in a different way than they have as an actor.”

Bessie premieres on HBO Saturday at 8/7c.

 

Queen Latifah: ‘I Don’t Find Being Gay or Lesbian to Be a Character Flaw’

Queen Latifah has spoken up for marriage equality and gay rights in a recent interview with Uptown Magazine, saying there’s always been gay people in the black community, but stopped short putting herself in that category.

The actress and former talk show host, whose sexuality has long been subject to speculation, has never commented on her orientation.

People’s ideas in general are antiquated when it comes to who you love. We haven’t moved as quickly as we probably should. And the reality is that there’s always been gay people in the black community, so it’s not foreign to us. And not just as a black community but just a society as a whole.

Who you choose to marry is really up to you and it’s not something you should be judged on. I don’t find being gay or lesbian to be a character flaw. Couples should be protected under the laws of this country period. It actually angers me. It’s not unusual so let’s be adults and let’s move forward.”

Latifah is starring in HBO’s Bessie, a biopic of blues icon Bessie Smith, which delves into the singer’s bisexuality during her heyday in the 1920’s.

I’m not really sure how people will feel about [Bessie’s bisexuality]. It’s not like it’s a secret with her story. She was just free.”

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Latifah also touches on life after the cancelation of her talk show, The Queen Latifah Show, in late November of last year, saying “obviously it was disappointing,” but that she looks forward to continuing work with her production company, Flavor Unit Entertainment.

 

First Teaser Released for ‘Bessie’, the Biopic of Bisexual Blues Singer Bessie Smith

Few people know the story of American jazz and blues singer Bessie Smith; but they should. Bessie Smith was easily the most popular female blues singer during the 1920s and the 1930s and she also happened to be bisexual.

You don’t get queer women of colour on television very often so it’s a very big deal that US cable TV network HBO will be bringing Bessie’s story to life later this year in a biopic called ‘Bessie’.

The biopic will cover the most important parts of Bessie’s life as she became and maintained her crown as the “Empress of the Blues” (as some called her during her era). This includes the relationship with her husband Jack Gee who is portrayed in the biopic by Michael Kenneth Williams, who some will recognise from HBO’s other shows, The Wire and Boardwalk Empire. As shown in the trailer, Gee and Smith don’t have the happiest of relationships and their marriage was troubled at best. It may be hard to sit through those scenes then but at least the biopic will be realistic.

Furthermore, viewers will also see her relationship with Ma Rainey (played by Mo’Nique), the woman who reportedly got into Bessie into blues singing and helped her discover her bisexuality. We don’t know how far the biopic will delve into Bessie’s bisexuality, especially as the trailer for the movie is just 30 seconds long but so far it’s making all the right noises.

For example, the filmmaker behind Bessie is Dee Rees who is the writer-director responsible for the other brilliant queer movie, Pariah, which dealt with identity, heartbreak and sexual expression. Plus, Bessie is being played by Queen Latifah who has played a queer woman before (she played a lesbian in Chicago and received an Oscar nom for it) and she’s earned Grammy nominations for her jazz singing too, so we know she has the singing chops to pull this one off.

Bessie will air on HBO on May 16th, 2015.

First Look At Queen Latifah As Queer Jazz Icon Bessie Smith

The first photos of Queen Latifah as jazz icon Bessie Smith in HBO’s Bessie have been release. The new Biopic focuses on Bessie Smith’s transformation from a struggling young singer into The Empress of the Blues and recounts her career successes, drinking problem and affairs with both men and women.

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Queen Latifah film will also stars Mo’Nique as Ma Rainey, and Bryan Greenberg as John Hammond, the Columbia Records rep who signed Smith, as well as Khandi Alexander,  Mike Epps, Oliver Platt and Charles S. Dutton. It’s being directed by queer filmmaker Dee Rees, whose lesbian coming-of- age film, Pariah, earned her critical acclaim in 2012.

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Latifah admits she was glad the film took more than two decades to get made.

“When the project came my way, I don’t think I had the life journey that went along with it. I got to live more of the blues.”

Queen Latifah

Bessie Smith was born in 1894 in Tennessee. Her career began in 1912 when she sang in a show with Ma Rainey. Her first recording, Downhearted Blues, established her as the most successful black vocalist of her time. More than any other performer, she was responsible for introducing the blues to mainstream of American.

She recorded regularly until 1928, touring both the North and the South, and appearing in the 1929 film St. Louis Blues. The Great Depression of the 1930’s was tough on the recording and entertainment industry, and Smith’s career went into a decline. Matters weren’t helped by her increasingly frequent episodes of binge drinking. She made her last recording in 1933. After a three year hiatus in performing, she again began to appear in clubs and shows, but died before another recording session could be arranged. In all, she made over two hundred recordings, including some famous duets with Louis Armstrong.

It was commonly asserted that Ma Rainey introduce Bessie Smith to saphic love, though there is no hard evidence for this. What is known is the Smith frequently got into trouble with her jealous second husband, Jack Gee, over her affairs with women such as Lillian Simpson, a chorus girl in Smith’s touring show, Harlem Frolics. Like Rainey, Smith sang songs with explicit lesbian content such as It’s Dirty But Good from 1930.

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Bessie debuts Saturday, May 16 at 8 p.m. on HBO.

Broad City is Back and Better Than Ever, So Here are 10 Reasons to Watch The Show

This incredible funny show returned to Comedy Central Wednesday night, and boy had we missed the laughs.

From its roots as a YouTube sketch show, Broad City has morphed into a something akin to a more authentic, absurd, and funnier version of ‘Girls’. It’s the realness of Broad City that makes it such a joy to watch.

For all of the alienating privilege that Girls exposed viewers to, Broad City is for the rest of us who haven’t lived the Girls life. Ilana and Abbi are two refreshingly normal girls looking to break even and pay off the rent in a familiar way that embodies exactly what comedy is about; comedy is funny because it’s relatable.

1. Underaged Bongs

Our favourite duo get stoned with a group of college students while trying to steal their air conditioner – Excellent move.

2. Subway encounters

Abbi and Ilana encounter every possible faux pas while moving from train car to train car on the New York City subway.

3. Body Dysmorphia

Abbi and Ilana show each other what their bodies can do and experience the miracle of childbirth.

4. Breakfast of Champions

The pair compete in an intense cereal-eating competition.

5. Ilana Hates Gum

Abbi and Ilana argue over whether gum is delicious or disgusting.

6. Holiday Party Tips

Abbi and Ilana present a step-by-step guide to making the best of an awful holiday party.

7. Hot Guys

Broad City returns for Season 2 on January 14, and it’s going to get hot.

8. Movie Day

The girls take advantage of a movie theater’s lax ticket policy.

9. Never Have I Ever

Abbi, Ilana and friends experience a brief moment of realness during a game of Never Have I Ever.

10. Eight F**king Thousand Dollars

Abbi and Ilana take care of some serious banking business.

Study Shows 2014 Has Seen an Increase in Gay, Lesbian and Bisexual Characters on Mainstream TV

Television has increased its depiction of gay, lesbian and bisexual characters, with the edge going to cable and the Internet over broadcast networks, according to a study released by GLAAD.

“Television networks are playing a key role in promoting cultural understanding of LGBT lives around the world, and are now producing some of the best LGBT-inclusive programming we’ve yet seen. As they move forward with new programs and storylines, networks must also keep an eye towards diversity and strive to include significant transgender content comparable to those efforts being made by their online competitors, such as Netflix’s Orange is the New Black and Amazon’s Transparent.”

Sarah Kate Ellis, GLAAD President and CEO

The overall on-screen progress comes as the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community has made social and political strides that include legalization of same-sex marriage in some U.S. states and the end of a military ban on openly gay service members.

In the 2014-15 season, the study by GLAAD said that 3.9 percent of 813 characters regularly seen on prime-time network scripted series will be lesbian, gay or bisexual, a total of 32 characters.

That represents an increase over last year’s 3.3 percent, but is down from the 4.4 percent record high for LGBT depictions on network series in 2012.

Among the networks, Fox again emerged with the highest percentage of lesbian, gay or bisexual regular characters, 6.5 percent, with “Brooklyn Nine-Nine” and “Glee” among the programs contributing to the tally. ABC, which had tied with Fox for first last year at 5.4 percent, dropped to 4.5 percent.

NBC is at 3.8 percent, up almost 3 points from last year, while CBS’ shows had 3.2 percent gay, lesbian or bisexual characters, up from 1.9 percent from last season. The CW has no regular LGBT characters, the gay rights group said.

Among cable TV shows, there were 64 regular LGBT characters, up from 42 last season. HBO has the most characters, followed by ABC Family and Showtime. One transgender character, on ABC Family’s “The Fosters,” was found by the study.

Tom Ascheim, President of ABC Family said…

“To be relevant to our audience, we must reflect the world as they experience it, and we know that experience is based on valuing loving relationships, no matter the gender.  This acknowledgment is especially gratifying because it means we are representing their view accurately. We will continue to deliver programming where differences are acknowledged and celebrated.”

Tom Ascheim, President of ABC Family

Michael Lombardo, President, HBO Programming added…

“This recognition from GLAAD belongs to those in the writing room, on set and in the editing bay but we are honored to be their partner and provide a home where they can tell their stories. At HBO we feel if we are not telling diverse stories then we are missing out on some of the best stories.  It is a part of our history and an ongoing commitment. “

Michael Lombardo, President, HBO Programming.

President of MTV and Logo TV said Stephen Friedman

“For MTV to fully connect with young people, we have to represent our entire audience in all its brilliant diversity, which includes people of every sexual orientation and gender identity. We’re honored to receive GLAAD’s recognition, and are committed to airing the stories of LGBTQ young people – to provide our audience characters they can relate to, and to bring new voices from the LGBTQ community into living rooms across the country.”

Stephen Friedman, President of MTV and Logo TV

GLAAD also studied other aspects of diversity on network TV. Despite several new high-profile broadcast series starring women, including Alfre Woodward as the U.S. president in NBC’s “State of Affairs” and Tea Leoni as secretary of state in CBS’ “Madam Secretary,” the percentage of female characters has declined to 40 percent, down 3 points from last year.

Ethnic characters on network shows make up 27 percent of the total, compared with 23 percent last season, with 1.4 percent depicted as people with disabilities, a slight increase from 1 percent in 2013.

True Blood’s Nelsan Ellis Discusses Luke Grimes’ Decision to Quit over Gay Storyline

True Blood star Nelsan Ellis has spoken to Vulture about Luke Grimes’ decision to quit the show over a planned gay storyline for his character.

Grimes played vampire James on the HBO show – quit abruptly in December just before the show’s final seventh season, in which his character his character has a relationship with Ellis’ character – Lafayette. His role has since been recast, with Nathan Parsons taking on the part.

In an interview with Vulture, Ellis said:

“I just think that, you’re an actor. We’re all sitting there going, ‘You quit your job because … really?’. I’m just… I’m over him. You quit your job because you don’t want to play a gay part? As if it’s … You know what? I’m going to stop talking. You make a statement when you do something like that.

You make a big statement, when you go, ‘I don’t want to play this part because it’s gay.’ If you have a child, if you have a son, and he comes out as gay, what are you going to do? If you have a daughter who comes out gay? You just made a statement, and it has ripple effects.

I’m supposed todo what my boss tells me to do, as an actor. I can’t approach a character with judgment. I certainly can’t tell my boss, ‘I can act what I want to act, but not what you tell me to act,’ especially on a show where you come in, knowing what it is.”

Nelsan Ellis – Vulture

Luke Grimes’ publicist later claimed the actor ‘always’ had an out clause as a means of pursuing other opportunities – “it had nothing to do with storylines, which he had not been privy to at the time of that posting.”

Queen Latifah to Star as Bessie Smith in HBO Biopic

HBO also announced yesterday it would be airing Queen Latifah’s Bessie Smith biopic in 2015. The Bessie Smith project marks the latest small-screen endeavor for Latifah, who is both producing and playing the lead role.

Bessie will be Written and directed by acclaimed filmmaker Dee Rees. Rees was critically acclaimed for her feature film “Pariah,” about a teen who struggles with her sexual identity. It won Best Independent Film from the African-American Film Critics Association and Best Cinematography Award at Sundance 2011, and was nominated for an Independent Spirit Award. The film and Rees also received multiple nominations from the Black Reel Awards and Black Film Critics Circle.

This new film Bessie will focuses on Bessie Smith’s transformation from a struggling young singer into “The Empress of the Blues” and one of the most successful recording artists of the 1920s.

Bat027 Smith, Bessie

Bessie Smith was born in 1894, in Chattanooga, Tennessee. Her career began in 1912 when she sang in a show with Ma Rainey. Her first recording, “Downhearted Blues”, established her as the most successful black vocalist of her time. More than any other performer, she was responsible for introducing the blues to mainstream of American.

She recorded regularly until 1928, touring both the North and the South, and appearing in the 1929 film St. Louis Blues. The Great Depression of the 1930’s was tough on the recording and entertainment industry, and Smith’s career went into a decline. Matters weren’t helped by her increasingly frequent episodes of binge drinking. She made her last recording in 1933. After a three year hiatus in performing, she again began to appear in clubs and shows, but died before another recording session could be arranged. In all, she made over two hundred recordings, including some famous duets with Louis Armstrong.

It was commonly asserted that Ma Rainey introduce Bessie Smith to saphic love, though there is no hard evidence for this. What is known is the Smith frequently got into trouble with her jealous second husband, Jack Gee, over her affairs with women such as Lillian Simpson, a chorus girl in Smith’s touring show, Harlem Frolics. Like Rainey, Smith sang songs with explicit lesbian content such as “It’s Dirty But Good” from 1930.

Smith was famous for her excessive appetites – for home-cooked Southern food, for moonshine, and for the tenderloin districts of the cities she performed in. Bessie Smith died in an automobile accident on September 26, 1937 in Clarksdale, Mississippi.

True Blood – The Final Season

We complain a lot about how there are no lesbians on TV, but one show which has been constant with LGBT appeal is True Blood, who appear to have lesbians falling out of its freaking ears. We’ve had Pam De Beaufort (Kristin Bauer van Straten), Tara Thornton (Rutina Wesley), Nan Flanagan (Jessica Tuck), Naomiaka Tara’s first GF (Vedette Lim), and Marnie Stonebrook (Fiona Shaw) – not a lesbian in the show but she is in real life. We even had Papi (Janina Gavankar) from The L Word playing a shapshifter.

But sadly Trueblood (like all good shows) is coming to an end… Season 7 has been announced as the last season for HBO’s hit.

A trailer for the final season was recently released. The extended look at season seven focuses on Sookie Stackhouse (Anna Paquin) facing judgment for the doomed fate of Bon Temps.

Bill Compton actor Stephen Moyer recently said that he agrees with the decision to end True Blood with its seventh season.

“I think they made the right call to say, ‘Let’s finish it on a massive run of 10 episodes’. The star went on to say: “It was either going to be one season or two seasons… and I would’ve definitely [stayed] on. But it’s very difficult with a show like ours to keep finding a Big Bad and creating all the drama around it.”

Stephen Moyer

True Blood returns on Sunday, June 22 on HBO in the US and on Monday, July 7 on Fox in the UK.


Why Comedy Central’s Broad City is the Lady-Led TV Show You’ve Been Waiting For

Girls on HBO is the best thing since sliced bread. It’s the reason to sign up to a cable subscription and Lena Dunham’s comedy writing voice is fresher than a ten ton stack of mints. Or, it’s offensive at times and ultimately not a reflection of the New York that many of the city’s inhabitants know and love. This depends on who you ask, but either way, Girls is creating the conversation, even if that conversation is sometimes on how it gets it wrong (namely in its representation of people of colour or lack thereof). The diverse faces and characters of New York may be better represented in Comedy Central’s hilarious new lady-led show, Broad, City, which is the show to watch for anyone looking for a new round of laughs.

Premiering in January, 2014, the new Comedy Central show made the jump from online to offline after being released as a web series, but a cult hit does as a cult hit needs and the requirement for a bigger audience, who would love it just as much as its online fans, was clear. Taking a chance on Broad City, Comedy Central’s unlikely test has become a sleeper hit, already renewed for season two, despite not finishing its debut season until March 26th. What makes the show a hit is the (often weed-based) humour of Ilana and Abbi, two friends who struggle to make a dime in the Big Apple, eschewing the pipe dreams that the ensemble of Girls are so insistent on following.

Too, perhaps it’s the realness of Broad City that makes it such a joy to watch. For all of the alienating privilege that Girls exposed viewers to, Broad City is for the rest of us who haven’t lived the Girls life. Ilana and Abbi are two refreshingly normal girls looking to break even and pay off the rent in a familiar way that embodies exactly what comedy is about; comedy is funny because it’s relatable. In real life, Ilana and Abbi are alumni of the Upright Citizens Bridge (the famous comedy troupe) and could make a Wall Street broker’s trade journal read like an SNL sketch but Broad City is also backed by the phenomenal star power of people like Amy Poehler (a producer on the show and season finale guest star).Not only this, but Fred Armisen’s comedy chops are also featured, helping to further stating that Broad City is one of the funniest show on the planet. So with all that said, maybe that headline is misleading as Broad City isn’t just a fine example of hilarity and irreverent fun, it’s the lady-led TV show that you’ve been waiting more, and then some.